- Vastaanotettu kiitos 135
what about some serious BoxStock-racing in Europe?
- Bengt
- Kirjoittaja
- Vieras
We have some propals about the rules for BoxStock in Europe, and I have also asked Mikael Sillen to bring it up for discussion at the Esroc-meeting in Kouvola.
We think it would be a good idea to have similar rules at different tracks when we organize a Box12-race, at least when the intention is to draw international participation. It's not good if you have to have ...one kind of motor for that race and one kind of chassi for that race ...and so on. These general rules should not be to detailed, we just should agree upon the most basic parts. In order to keep the costs down a bit I think it's very important to not tie any of the allowed parts to one specific manufacturer.
Of course some basics like:
* only the standard C-can's with single ceramic magnets with L=.500"+-10%? or ?
* only armature's marked G12 or X12 or X+12 with min dia .513" and the whole lenght of the axle-dia 2mm
* other things not mentioned below could follow the "basic" Esroc-rules.
* ballbearings allowed in can and endbell? or not?
* only plastic endbell? also aluminium endbell?
* ballbearings allowed in the chassi? or not?
* only steel-chassis? or?
* overall weight-limit? or not?
* a ban on expensive parts, like hollow or graphite-axles? or not?
* the track-condition to be used, just sprayglue or full glue?
* it doesn't need to be a too complicated set of rules? or?
We think it's time to get into action on this now!
What do you think about it? what do you think other racers think about? any idea's on how can we get the process going on this?
cheers / Bengt
Team21 in Mönsterås, Sweden
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- Tuho Polttaja
- Poissa
- Expert Boarder
- Mämmikoura
* Mura C-can setup with single ceramic magnets, no modifications as grinding etc. except for a 3x4mm hole to a can so the can does not interfere with rear axle (If Mura setup becomes unavailable, it might get replaced with another brand)
* G12/X12 arm that fits the setup, diameter mininum .500"
* Bronze bearings only in motor (This rule is a subject of heavy public discussion and might change in foreseeable future)
* Bronze bearings only in chassis (The old I15-24 rules allowed ball bearings)
* Chassis material and weight undetermined
* "Expensive" parts are not banned but are neither used
* Spray glue
Bengt, you should post the rules that you use for reference. It will allow broader discussion.
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- Bengt
- Kirjoittaja
- Vieras
Ok – here are some of the rules I have found.
Very short comments (see further down for more detailed info)
Finnish rules (Mura setups only, no ballbearings in chassi or motor)
MRTU Uden rules (Voki chassi only, ballbearings in motor but not in the chassi)
IMCA’s rulebook (Koford / Proslot Spec.15 chassi only, motors blueprinted only by manufacturers, no ballbearings at all, weightlimit)
Sveslot rules (any steelchassi, ballbearings in motor and chassi)
Brittish rules ? (can’t find for Box12)
German rules ? (can’t find)
I don’t say these rules are good or bad, just use them as a reference.
It would for sure be easier to have just one set of international rules if you get the idea of going to a race in another country.
cheers / Bengt
From:
The Kouvola Slotracing site - www.uwasa.fi/~l82742/kouvola/rules.htm
RULES OF BOX STOCK G12
Box Stock G12 is only for semi pro drivers. If you drive main G7 it is not allowed to drive Box Stock G12.
Chassis: Only Steel chassis is allowed and ball bearings are prohibited
Body:Esroc rules
Motor:Mura set-up, plastic endbell, lightening of the can is prohibited. Ball bearings are not allowed. Only Single Mura magnets are allowed. Cobalt material is prohibited. Armature should be for G12 with or w/o X that are USRA legal allowed, except the .0500 min diameter
The voltage will be 12,5 V during the whole race.
From:
MRTU Uden - home.planet.nl/~banni115/multi_dutch_2004.htm
Info GP12 (Wingcars) Sunday, 6th November
Technical Rules - Okali Chassis (you can buy at the club Ballbearings not allowed)
Motor - Original standard C-Can (Ballbearing allowed)
Original endbell/hardware (Standard)
Original ceramic magnets (Standard no Quat or Kobalt magnets allowed)
Magnets may be glued in Can.
Shuntwires allowed
Springs for motor is free
Armatures - Must be tagged by 12 or 12+ Minimum .510
Body - Wingcar Body, as mentioned in Esroc rules 2005
From:
The IMCA Rule book - www.imca-slotracing.com/rulebookG12.html
Way too long to cut’n’paste all of it here, but some essentials are:
8.2. SPEC 15 CHASSIS FOR BOX STOCK G12 CARS
(a) TYPE AND MAKE - No other chassis than the by USRA homologated Koford M503 SPEC 15 and ProSlot PS319 SPEC 15 chassis, 72 grams at all times during racing,
8.3. BLUEPRINTED MOTORS FOR BOX STOCK G12 CARS
(a) RTR G12 MOTORS must be commercially easily available. A limited number of motors is allowed. Only blueprinted motors - blueprinted by nobody else than the manufacturer - of the following types are allowed:
ProSlot PS-740 PRO RSR, and PS-740 PRO VIP;
Koford Blueprinted M408J-B12, and as soon as a blueprinted version is out also: Super Feather G12 (#504A);
Kelly Hybrid B12 and 1142 (in the blueprinted version as sold by Slot Car City).
Mura Exterminator G12 (including the Proformance version);
Cahoza C-can G12-0, G12-A, G12-U, 250X-12.
Maximum retail price of a RTR motor must be under € 80.00 ($ 97.60 US).
8.4. BODY SPECIFICATIONS OF A BOX STOCK G12 CAR
(b) ALLOWED TYPES OF BODIES - are restricted to Nissan of Alpha, Peugeot of Koford and Monaro 1 of 2KK.
8.5. WHEELS, TIRES, AXLES, GEARING, CLEARANCE
(b) REAR TIRES will be handout black Alpha Wonder tires with a shore adapted to the used Blue King track.
(c) AXLES - Hollow axles are forbidden. Retail price of the axles may never exceed $5.00 US or €4.35.
(d) GEARING - 9:39 (using GT1 angled 9 tooth pinion, and Cahoza or ProSlot spur); or 10:44 if using 72 GT1 pitch gears.
(e) ON CLEARANCE - The rear ground clearance will be measured under the rear of the chassis and gear, directly below the axle. The minimum track entry clearance has to be 1.2mm. The minimum clearance at ANY time including the end of the race has to be 0.8mm.
From:
Sveslot - web.telia.com/~u31932537/regler/box12.html
Tekniska specifikationer
för Box-12 (2006)
Chassikonstruktionen
Fritt, dock endast stål- och wire-chassin. Kullager är tillåtna. Ihåliga eller komposit-bakaxlar är ej tillåtet.
Karosser
Fritt. Karossen skall vara målad med ogenomsynlig färg förutom vindrutor som måste vara omålade. Karossen skall vara försedd med förarinsats.
Motor
Omodifierad C-kanna. Invändiga mått får ej understiga:
Längd: 23,495 mm
Bredd: 21,209 mm
Höjd: 14,224 mm
Endast keramiska singel-magneter med följande mått: (+/- 10%)
Längd: 12,70 mm
Bredd: 3,81 mm
Höjd: 13,97 mm
Tillåtna motorer är G-12 motorer med massproducerad C-kanna och keramiska fullhöjds singelmagneter. Kullager är tillåtna. Ankaret ska vara märkt som ett grupp 12 ankare, t.ex. X-12 eller B-12. Ankarstacken skall vara obruten och ha en minimum längd av 8,89 mm samt vara lindad med 50 varv av AWG 29 tråd, samt ha minimum diameter av 13,03 mm. Endast 2 mm ankaraxel är tillåten. Endbell skall vara tillverkad av plastmaterial. Magneter får limmas, men ej shimsas. Uttag för bakaxeln får göras i magnet och kanna. Isolering av kolfjädrar och shuntning av kol är tillåten. Motorn får renoveras med standarddelar.
Bilens mått
Bredd: max 83 mm
Längd: max 200 mm
Framhjul: min 12,7 mm dia.
Frigång: min 0,8 mm vid start (min 0,5 mm under hela tävlingen)
Karossmått: 1. Total maxhöjd är 63,5 mm. Måtten fastställs med bilen på testplatta.2. Vingar: Maxhöjd 63,5 mm i höjd med bakhjulets centrumlinje. Härifrån sluttar den neråt till en maxhöjd av 50,8 mm vid en punkt 95,3 mm framför bakhjulets centrumlinje. Samma sluttning skall fortsätta ända fram. Framkanten skall vara tejpad och hörnen avrundade, så att ingen kan komma till skada. Vingarna skall vara genomskinliga.3. Frontspoiler: Max längd är 12,7 mm. Hörnen skall vara rundade.4. Bakspoiler: Skall vara genomskinlig, men dekaler är tillåtna.
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- Bengt
- Kirjoittaja
- Vieras
Here is the response I got from Douwe ...can it be better?
cheers / Bengt
On Wed Mar 15 10:01 , mini racing team uden sent:
Hello Bengt,
I like this very much.
At our club there are some driver who like it to I,m sure.
Easy rules and have fun.
C-can only ceramic single magnets ball bearings for motor and chassis.
Arms must be tagged by g12 or x12.Chassis free with no weight limit.
Minimum height 0.8mm at all times
Sprayglue and maybe before race only a few drops for the corners.
Looks nice to me
Lets see what Michael have to say after esroc meeting
I haven't heard anything about the race in Kouvola yet do you now something
what happened ....
douwe
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- Bengt
- Kirjoittaja
- Vieras
Can someone who attended the Esroc-meeting please give us a briefing on the discussion there and what the decissions was?
cheers / Bengt
ps: can someone please tell me how to get in contact with the folks that will organize the next EC in Köln next year?
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- Egil Aksnes
- Vieras
First I will say thank you to Bengt for bringing this tipic up! Group 12 is the future for international wingcar racing. Speaking for myself, I have not done any wingcar racing for some years now, especially no cobolt racing. One of the reasons is that we have been building a new Blue King track here in Asker, and it has taken quite some time to have it finished. If I am going to start G27 and G7 wingcar racing again now, I will have to invest a seriously huge amont of money to have all the equipement to be competetive. Then, where should I go racing? And would it be any fun?
G12 racing with simple rules and spray glue will be my choice!
In fact we are planning to have our next traditional ASKER 1000 race whith G12 as the main class, with good cash prizes! More ifo to come.
Then to a more specific comment on rules:
In my opinion the Sveslot rules are the best and simplest. For those of you who don´t know them they are bascally like this:
Chassis: Steel or wire. Ballbearings allowed.
Motor: Any C-can whithin sec, dimensions. Single magnets. Plastic endbell. Ballbearings allowed.
Armature: Any G12 marked X-12 etc. Min. dia. .513. 2mm. axle.
Body: Within ESROC rules I think.
Glue: Spray glue.
Comments:
Motor rules should be like this. I think they are the same as used in eg. ISRA rules. You could use the same motors both in scale and wing-cars.
Spray glue!!!!! Equal conditions and saves motors!
Ballbearings should be allowed. The extra cost is not that much compared to the total.
Mabye a minimum weight limit, like USRA? A litle heavier cars vill give cars that mabye are not super quick in one lap, but more forgiving in racing. Gives closer racing vith less crashing.
Give your comments!
Egil Aksnes
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- Bengt
- Kirjoittaja
- Vieras
Here are some info I got from Mikael and from Douwe’s site.
ESROC meeting 2006 - Kuovola
11.03.2006
Delegates:
Czech Republic - Josef Korec,
Finland - Juha Uli-Sipola,
Slovakia - Vlado Okali,
Sweden - Mikael Silen,
Brazil - Luiz Bernardino ____________________________________________________________
I. Place & date of ESROC European Championships 2007.
Last year the ESROC was given to Germany for 2006. Due to Germany can't make it 2006, the choice goes automatically to Germany 2007.
The date of the race is 8. - 11.03.2007
II. Clarifying of G12 wing car.
In the G12 wing car class are only steel chassis allowed. No weight or mark limits. The organizer of the ESROC Championships can prescript the only G12 motor brand/mark.
OK, so now we know more and also in advance what to expect at the next Esroc Box12-race.
I have emailed the webmaster on the www.bluekingclub.de -site, but to no avail. Can someone give me a specific name and email for the BluKingClub?
And a question to the finnish organizers and racers:
I suppose you have a good reason when you race with Mura motors only – what is this reason? From what I know; the Mura is not cheaper then others; it’s not of excellent quality (rather the opposite) or better or faster then the others; is it just an old habit? – please, let us know?
cheers / Bengt
ps: thanks Egil …all I want is more racers to play with on equal and predicted conditions
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When using only one setup there is no need to buy dozens of different manufacturers setups ( in the late 90´s there were only a couple brands, now there are at least 10 ). Racing is easy and equal because everybody has similar parts.
No doubt that some brands quality and perhaps availability ( don´t know because haven´t bought any Mura parts for years ) is better than in Mura parts.
But as mentioned earlier, it´s just so easy, equal, simply and cheap for everybody to use one brand setup. The brand could be anything but because of historical reasons it´s Mura.
Matti
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- Bengt
- Kirjoittaja
- Vieras
Thanks Matti for letting us know your history with "Mura-motors only".
I've also got a good response from Klaus at the german BlueKingClub.
Hi
When we have the European Championships we will have the Rules from ESROC !! Sure !! Everybody is welcome on our Track!! Having a good race etc.
Next week I will meet Vlado Okali in Pilzen and then I have some questions about this Rules!! Why not all c-cans,why only 500 dia arms,why Mura Mags!! There is such a big market for G12 Motors. Ballbearings in the Axle and one in the Motor(Gearside) make them run smoother,also its better for the Arm.In germany driving with G12 Motors is very strong!! For Production/Eurosport also Euro Cup and German Masters.Nobody has got Mura Parts!! 90% drive Proslot/Cahoza/Camen/Red Fox/AB Slotsport Parts. Same Price!! Chassis in Steel is very good!! I always think that there´s some good Reasons!! Plastic Endbell is nice ,too!! It´s not a question about the Money,everywere you can buy blueprinted Materials!! Next thing is,if you go to a race,everybody has fresh Material in there Pockets!!
Hope that a good discusion is or will be started!!
Very best Reguards
Klaus Jungblut
www.bluekingclub.de
cheers / Bengt
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